1. #1

    Default First decent anatomy study (Still WIP)



    Hey guys, here's my second anatomy study. I started just focusing on the torso alone, but decided it was time to try a full anatomy sculpt. I found the first one horrible, but learned some things along the way. In my opinion this one is decent. Hopefully I'll get some crits from the zbrush masters. Don't hold back on the crits, I'm here to learn. Thanks in advance for your responses!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	first render.jpg 
Views:	108 
Size:	97.7 KB 
ID:	326198   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	first render_back.jpg 
Views:	250 
Size:	101.5 KB 
ID:	326199   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	first render_profile.jpg 
Views:	240 
Size:	71.0 KB 
ID:	326200  
    Last edited by Toxicassclown; 10-04-12 at 12:02 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    131

    Default

    I guess it's not even good enough to be decent...

  3. #3
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    UK
    Age
    45
    Posts
    1,552

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxicassclown View Post
    I guess it's not even good enough to be decent...
    Good start on your Anatomy study. As you progress, your get that exciting feeling when you have moved from where you where to a new level, all you need to do is keeping going over it more and more, but with new knowledge. Its exciting when doing whole body sculpts, and as you get better your speed will increase, and your concentration will get better. What happends at the early stages on learning anatomy is we dont fully understand just how huge of a job it is your taking on, so loose focus on the relationships between bone, muscle and fat, this leaves allot of things wrong, so much that the only way to correct them is to start over again, which is what we end up doing anyway.

    I would advice to pick the skull, as a subject, learn the bones, and their forms, and where the planes of the head are. Flesh out the Skull so you understand the landmarks, proportions, and basic muscles of the face. The head alone is a very big study, iv gone back time and time again and learnt more, but when you start doing whole bodys, allot will suffer globaly to start with, there is just too much to take on in one sculpt. Pick the head, torso, arms, legs, Hands, Feet, and seperate the studies, and in between do some loose sculpts of the whole body to keep things interesting.

    Keep working at it, your off to a good start, and this time next year your look back on your old work and smile at just how far you have come.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tez View Post
    Good start on your Anatomy study. As you progress, your get that exciting feeling when you have moved from where you where to a new level, all you need to do is keeping going over it more and more, but with new knowledge. Its exciting when doing whole body sculpts, and as you get better your speed will increase, and your concentration will get better. What happends at the early stages on learning anatomy is we dont fully understand just how huge of a job it is your taking on, so loose focus on the relationships between bone, muscle and fat, this leaves allot of things wrong, so much that the only way to correct them is to start over again, which is what we end up doing anyway.

    I would advice to pick the skull, as a subject, learn the bones, and their forms, and where the planes of the head are. Flesh out the Skull so you understand the landmarks, proportions, and basic muscles of the face. The head alone is a very big study, iv gone back time and time again and learnt more, but when you start doing whole bodys, allot will suffer globaly to start with, there is just too much to take on in one sculpt. Pick the head, torso, arms, legs, Hands, Feet, and seperate the studies, and in between do some loose sculpts of the whole body to keep things interesting.

    Keep working at it, your off to a good start, and this time next year your look back on your old work and smile at just how far you have come.
    Hey, thanks alot on your feedback (it means a lot coming from a someone with your knowledge of anatomy). I know I was not focusing on the skull much because I just wanted to attemp a understanding the relantionship of all the muscles put together. I will focus more on the head when I get a a good grasp of the bodys anatomy. I'm currently struggling with the hands and feet, how do you approach sculpting them? Thanks again for your feedback!

  5. #5
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    UK
    Age
    45
    Posts
    1,552

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxicassclown View Post
    Hey, thanks alot on your feedback (it means a lot coming from a someone with your knowledge of anatomy). I know I was not focusing on the skull much because I just wanted to attemp a understanding the relantionship of all the muscles put together. I will focus more on the head when I get a a good grasp of the bodys anatomy. I'm currently struggling with the hands and feet, how do you approach sculpting them? Thanks again for your feedback!
    Hands and feet realy should be looked at as simple forms. look at the masses, and proportions just like any other body part, see how the toes curl, and how there is a arch inside the foot, and how there is a slope across the top of the foot. See how the ankle is made from the two lower leg bones Tibia, Fibula, and how they connect to the foot. See how these two bones form the outside ankle Fibular, which is lower, and the Tibia forms the inside Ankle, higher. Look how the weight spreads out the foot. The hands do the same, see how the wrist is made from the Ulna and Radius. look at the palm, its basic form of a circle, and how the fingers attatch forming its curve. Look at the length of the fingers in relation to the palm length. Look at the fingers as square blocks then round tubes. Drawing books are good to see these block type forms.

    Hands and feet always get left to last, or negleted, also ears dont get their due attention, these are worth a study on their own. I sent you a PM.

    As far as Zbrush goes, always work at low polygon levels, your avoid lumpy forms, and your get the masses done far quicker. Use the move Topology brush, and inflate brush on fingers and toes, clay buildup is good to add extra shape. Mask out the shape of the nails, and use clay build up after inverting the mask. Its a good idear to create a convex curve for the nails before masking that area. Dontadd detail till th very last point. For better muscle placement and depth, mask out the muscles, invert the mask and clay buid it up, your get avery neat look if thats what your after.

    Danny.
    Last edited by tez; 10-02-12 at 06:33 PM. Reason: More info added

  6. #6
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tez View Post
    Hands and feet realy should be looked at as simple forms. look at the masses, and proportions just like any other body part, see how the toes curl, and how there is a arch inside the foot, and how there is a slope across the top of the foot. See how the ankle is made from the two lower leg bones Tibia, Fibula, and how they connect to the foot. See how these two bones form the outside ankle Fibular, which is lower, and the Tibia forms the inside Ankle, higher. Look how the weight spreads out the foot. The hands do the same, see how the wrist is made from the Ulna and Radius. look at the palm, its basic form of a circle, and how the fingers attatch forming its curve. Look at the length of the fingers in relation to the palm length. Look at the fingers as square blocks then round tubes. Drawing books are good to see these block type forms.

    Hands and feet always get left to last, or negleted, also ears dont get their due attention, these are worth a study on their own. I sent you a PM.

    As far as Zbrush goes, always work at low polygon levels, your avoid lumpy forms, and your get the masses done far quicker. Use the move Topology brush, and inflate brush on fingers and toes, clay buildup is good to add extra shape. Mask out the shape of the nails, and use clay build up after inverting the mask. Its a good idear to create a convex curve for the nails before masking that area. Dontadd detail till th very last point. For better muscle placement and depth, mask out the muscles, invert the mask and clay buid it up, your get avery neat look if thats what your after.

    Danny.
    I want to achieve a natural look, but that's gonna happen with lots of practice, isn't it? I'm currently masking and inverting the mask to get better muscles separation (don't know if it looks right).Is it better to sculpt without using masks and inverting them to achieve a more natural look?
    Last edited by Toxicassclown; 10-02-12 at 07:25 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    UK
    Age
    45
    Posts
    1,552

    Default

    A true natural look is going to come from the basic proportions and forms, you can get this normally within 2 sub d levels. When you have that right, you don't need to over do the muscle definition, unless thats the look your after. The natural posture in gesture, correct muscle, and bony land marks will carry it. If you dropped down to a lower sub d level, view the silhouette at all angles, your soon know if it looks right. Also use the blur feature in Zbrush, it takes away the distraction of muscle definition, and makes you look at the overall forms. Look for things like the calfs, does the inner head look lower than higher, is the vastus lateralis muscle showing its form from the posterior (rear view). As you rotate around the figure look from the top and bottom, there are tons of forms to look out for, this is why its so important to learn your bones before your muscles.

    You need the clavicle, scapula, acromion process, 7th vertebra, ribs, iliac crest, patella, both bones of the forearm, and lower leg Ulna, Radius, Tibia, Fibula just to mention a few. Without these bones you have no location for the insertion and origin of the muscles, then it becomes hit n miss. Without knowing the location of the epicondyles, the ulna and radius, your forearm muscles, the flexors and extensors have no origin or insertion. The same goes for the skull, until you understand the bones, and their forms, your going to be having random results, and when they do look good at times, you wont know what it was you did that made it suddenly look better, this is when one sculpt looks good, and next time it looks bad. I don't want to go on too much with information overload, but you get the idea.

    As a example take the trapezius, is it just a diamond shape than fans out over the shoulders, or does it rest on certain bone structures? The pectoralis, deltoid, bicep, which order do you lay them down, as they must be sculpted in a certain sequence? If you want to progress faster, go back to the bones. I cant recommend Elliot Goldfinger Anatomy for Artist enough, also Scott spensor does a nice Anatomy sculpting book, plus you have the guys such as Ryan kingslien, Zack Petroc, Scott Eaton to learn from.

    I havent mastered it, its on going, but there is a point when it gets to a exceptable level where the foundations are all in place.

    Danny.
    Last edited by tez; 10-03-12 at 01:33 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tez View Post
    A true natural look is going to come from the basic proportions and forms, you can get this normally within 2 sub d levels. When you have that right, you don't need to over do the muscle definition, unless thats the look your after. The natural posture in gesture, correct muscle, and bony land marks will carry it. If you dropped down to a lower sub d level, view the silhouette at all angles, your soon know if it looks right. Also use the blur feature in Zbrush, it takes away the distraction of muscle definition, and makes you look at the overall forms. Look for things like the calfs, does the inner head look lower than higher, is the vastus lateralis muscle showing its form from the posterior (rear view). As you rotate around the figure look from the top and bottom, there are tons of forms to look out for, this is why its so important to learn your bones before your muscles.

    You need the clavicle, scapula, acromion process, 7th vertebra, ribs, iliac crest, patella, both bones of the forearm, and lower leg Ulna, Radius, Tibia, Fibula just to mention a few. Without these bones you have no location for the insertion and origin of the muscles, then it becomes hit n miss. Without knowing the location of the epicondyles, the ulna and radius, your forearm muscles, the flexors and extensors have no origin or insertion. The same goes for the skull, until you understand the bones, and their forms, your going to be having random results, and when they do look good at times, you wont know what it was you did that made it suddenly look better, this is when one sculpt looks good, and next time it looks bad. I don't want to go on too much with information overload, but you get the idea.

    As a example take the trapezius, is it just a diamond shape than fans out over the shoulders, or does it rest on certain bone structures? The pectoralis, deltoid, bicep, which order do you lay them down, as they must be sculpted in a certain sequence? If you want to progress faster, go back to the bones. I cant recommend Elliot Goldfinger Anatomy for Artist enough, also Scott spensor does a nice Anatomy sculpting book, plus you have the guys such as Ryan kingslien, Zack Petroc, Scott Eaton to learn from.

    I havent mastered it, its on going, but there is a point when it gets to a exceptable level where the foundations are all in place.

    Danny.
    Thanks for your insight, mate. I always start laying the bony landmarks at my lowest subdivision. I start with the toracic arch of the rip cage, the acromium process, 7th cervical vertebra, spine of the scapulas, iliac crest, greater trochanter, patela, the bony portrusion of the elbows,etc. I guess when I get into sculpting the muscles, many things just get lost in translation. I made the basemesh in zbrush with zspheres, but forgot to add geometry for the ears and mouth with a couple of zspheres, that's why there's not much definition in those areas (the geo just gets streched). I'm gonna make a basemesh with better topology to support the details of the face when I'm done with this study. Thanks again for your feedback!
    Last edited by Toxicassclown; 10-06-12 at 01:30 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    1,344

    Default

    I'm not going to write a ton, but its a good start, keep going
    Lead Character Artist
    Firaxis Games
    -artstation

  10. #10
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Framedworld View Post
    I'm not going to write a ton, but its a good start, keep going
    Thanks, mate! I like your style a lot.

  11. #11

    Smile

    More male anatomy studies. This time I got a basemesh with much better geo (it really makes a difference).



    BTW, any tips to sculpt the forearms would be greatly appreciated (they're killing me). Still a WIP!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	better male anatomy_front.jpg 
Views:	127 
Size:	95.2 KB 
ID:	326769   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	male anatomy_back#2.jpg 
Views:	115 
Size:	89.1 KB 
ID:	326770   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	male anatomy_profile#2.jpg 
Views:	113 
Size:	64.0 KB 
ID:	326771   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	male anatomy_front.jpg 
Views:	278 
Size:	95.2 KB 
ID:	326786   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	male anatomy_back.jpg 
Views:	270 
Size:	89.0 KB 
ID:	326787  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	male anatomy_profile.jpg 
Views:	271 
Size:	64.1 KB 
ID:	326788  
    Last edited by Toxicassclown; 10-07-12 at 02:10 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    UK
    Age
    45
    Posts
    1,552

    Default

    Hi.

    I like the extra details for the face and ears. If you really want to challenge your self, see how far you can push your sculpt at 2 sub D levels lower. It is the case of keep going over and over it, but you need to develop some forms that are missing, or out of place right back at the lowest Sub D level, or within the first 3 levels.

    Starting at the head, look at the forms and how they relate to each other. Take a screen shot, and draw the skull over it in your 2D art program of choice. If the proportions are way out, then your find you self having to stretch and distort the skull to fit your model. If you draw a horizontal line through the line of the eyes, then measure the overall head height, your eyes should be half way. When you examine the (highest) point of the skull first, and get this correct, then your be in a better place to l look at the location of the other structures. There are allot of points of reference to scale and measure from, once you get these down, then you can exaggerate them, or modify them to just come out of the cannon or average.

    So check things out like where the Occipital bone ends at the back of the skull, where in relation is the bottom of the nasal cavity . From the Zygomatic arch, where in relation is the Mandible? The reason why you have to get this all right is not only will it look wrong, but your be using the head as a point of reference as to how many heads high your body is, and where certain landmarks can be taken from it.

    Jumping to forearms, well this can be made simple, or more complex depending in what position your hand is rotated in, Pronation, or supination. Simply put, locate the epicondyles of the Humerus. There is one on either side, lateral, and medial. There are two sets of muscles that connect to them, the Flexors to the medial epicondyle, and extensors, to the lateral epicondyle. Think of these two sets as muscles for the front of the forearm, and muscles for the back, they either flex the fingers, or extend them. I don't want to go into too much depth, but look how they insert either to the wrist, back of the hand, towards the Ulna, and Radius. This is a study in itself, and is one of the more complex areas of the body. Not only do you need to know where they insert and originate from, but what forms they make, im still refining this myself. In addition to the Flexors and Extensors, there are two other muscles, that connect from the Humerus, towards to Radius, im keeping it more simple terms than it is, which is why you need a good book like Elliot Goldfinger Anatomy For Artist. Again, you really don't want to start sculpting muscles on the arms, until your sure they are the correct length.

    If your serious about learning anatomy, you really need to get to grips with the terms often used, Lateral, Medial, Anterior e.c.t, otherwise the long names of muscles may distract you a bit. I'm currently going into a deeper study of anatomy right now, I know that im going to come across things I had no clue about, got partially right, or outright wrong, this is the process we all have to go through. If you want to save time, don't go any further than bones for a while, after all they are the foundation for muscle. Everything links and fits together, and the last thing you did, will be the starting position or have some relation to the next. Its like a jigsaw puzzle, they all fit together.

    Good luck. Danny.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tez View Post
    Hi.

    I like the extra details for the face and ears. If you really want to challenge your self, see how far you can push your sculpt at 2 sub D levels lower. It is the case of keep going over and over it, but you need to develop some forms that are missing, or out of place right back at the lowest Sub D level, or within the first 3 levels.

    Starting at the head, look at the forms and how they relate to each other. Take a screen shot, and draw the skull over it in your 2D art program of choice. If the proportions are way out, then your find you self having to stretch and distort the skull to fit your model. If you draw a horizontal line through the line of the eyes, then measure the overall head height, your eyes should be half way. When you examine the (highest) point of the skull first, and get this correct, then your be in a better place to l look at the location of the other structures. There are allot of points of reference to scale and measure from, once you get these down, then you can exaggerate them, or modify them to just come out of the cannon or average.

    So check things out like where the Occipital bone ends at the back of the skull, where in relation is the bottom of the nasal cavity . From the Zygomatic arch, where in relation is the Mandible? The reason why you have to get this all right is not only will it look wrong, but your be using the head as a point of reference as to how many heads high your body is, and where certain landmarks can be taken from it.

    Jumping to forearms, well this can be made simple, or more complex depending in what position your hand is rotated in, Pronation, or supination. Simply put, locate the epicondyles of the Humerus. There is one on either side, lateral, and medial. There are two sets of muscles that connect to them, the Flexors to the medial epicondyle, and extensors, to the lateral epicondyle. Think of these two sets as muscles for the front of the forearm, and muscles for the back, they either flex the fingers, or extend them. I don't want to go into too much depth, but look how they insert either to the wrist, back of the hand, towards the Ulna, and Radius. This is a study in itself, and is one of the more complex areas of the body. Not only do you need to know where they insert and originate from, but what forms they make, im still refining this myself. In addition to the Flexors and Extensors, there are two other muscles, that connect from the Humerus, towards to Radius, im keeping it more simple terms than it is, which is why you need a good book like Elliot Goldfinger Anatomy For Artist. Again, you really don't want to start sculpting muscles on the arms, until your sure they are the correct length.

    If your serious about learning anatomy, you really need to get to grips with the terms often used, Lateral, Medial, Anterior e.c.t, otherwise the long names of muscles may distract you a bit. I'm currently going into a deeper study of anatomy right now, I know that im going to come across things I had no clue about, got partially right, or outright wrong, this is the process we all have to go through. If you want to save time, don't go any further than bones for a while, after all they are the foundation for muscle. Everything links and fits together, and the last thing you did, will be the starting position or have some relation to the next. Its like a jigsaw puzzle, they all fit together.

    Good luck. Danny.
    Hey Danny, thanks for replying. you're right in assuming I'm too quick to jump to higher subdivision levels ( how can you tell, though?). I'll try and stay away from subdividing too quick in the future. I'm familiar with almost all the muscles, bony landmarks and the bones names in the body, though the origen of some of the muscles trick me (gotta keep working on those). I'll start new skull studies to get familiar with the face. Thanks for your feedback, mate!
    Last edited by Toxicassclown; 10-06-12 at 05:55 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    UK
    Age
    45
    Posts
    1,552

    Default

    Hi.

    I know your moving into higher Sub D levels too quick because almost everyone does this in Zbrush, and for the Sub D level your at it should be developed more. Its good that you know the muscle names, some are not too easy to remember. To really get them muscles layered, use the clay tubes, and buildup. Build them up in the order they lay so your get the correct overlap of the muscles on top, like the Bicep, Pecs, Deltoid muscles.

    Im not going to go through the whole body, but look at your silhouettes, try to avoid perfect straights. It would be nice to see some of the lats from the front, and the pecs inserting into their correct locations, this will change the forms. Re-locate the scapula because if the scapula is coming from the clavicle, then your Traps should not be going at that angle, and to that insertion point. The trapezius lays right on top of the spine of the scapula, around the edge of the acromion process, into a small portion of the clavicle. Again this comes back to the bones. If the clavicle is correct, then your scapula has a good starting point, so the acromion process is going to be in the correct location, in turn once you get the angle of the scapula correct, then your traps will lay correct, this is also true to how far the traps goes down to the correct ribs. Think of it as dot to dot, If one dot is out, then others can be, and the result is the overall image wont look correct. If the scapula is wrong , then the muscles from the scapula to their insertion will look wrong also.

    Re check the bony landmarks, not just identifying them, but locating them to where they should be in relation to other bones.


    Just keep going over it, and take some breaks, come back, and act on what you first see

  15. #15

    Default

    Update: made some light tweaks and started working on the forearms.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	male anatomy_profile.jpg 
Views:	99 
Size:	65.3 KB 
ID:	326986  
    Last edited by Toxicassclown; 10-07-12 at 04:11 PM.

Page 1 of 11 123410 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •