1. #1
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    599

    Default WIP: Lost World Competition (3dm3.com)

    I have worked through a number of issues thanks to the help and encouragement of a number of forum members ... and of course ... Aurick.

    This is where I will start my WIP posting and would appreciate any tips or crits along the way. I am doing this for dual purpose. Porfolio website and the Lost World Competition on 3dm3.com. My idea is to show a Philistine City as my "lost world" and end up with the death scene in the temple of Dagon as Samson destroys the temple by pushing apart the supporting columns. Historical reference has been hard to come by, obviously, but I have had some assistance along the way from an architect or two in Israel and a couple of other person from that country as well as a couple of Christian ministers that have taken interest in my project. If anyone has reference material on either Samson or the Philistine (iron age) culture, architecture, material culture, costume, weapons, etc. I would appreciate it being listed here in the thread.

    I have just started the texturing and have a long way to go. He will be covered heavily with hair so much of my detail will be covered, but I prefer to do it so that I have the luxury of moving asside hair during the animation process.

    This project is being done with the following software:
    3ds Max, ZBrush, Photoshop, Mental Ray rendering (inside 3ds Max).

    This is my second character ever to model, my first human to model and my first ever to texture so this is a huge learning curve for me so I sincerely appreciate any tips and crits along the way.

    This character is approximately 3k poly count cage which I will be rigging and animating much later and the highest level of detail is somewhere in the 3m range in ZBrush which I am trying to display in max with displacement and bump.

    Image Below:
    Samson_TextProgress_001: Neck and head skin/scars layer completed accept for adjustment on the ears where the beard is creeping up on to the lower part and the seam on the shoulders which is minor. I will also adjust the mustache area some and will likely add a hairline even though it will be covered so that I can render less hair and let the hair line act as a psudo shadow. I am using displacement map in the displacement channel and the bump channel and foregoing the normal map altogether after testing. I am satisfied with this combination for the distance of my camera views that I have planned. He is still slightly too wet and I have not tweaked SSS, etc., but I am happy with the progress so far. I will do the "vein" layer much later in the process.

    Samson_TextProgress_001.jpg
    Last edited by hosch; 12-03-06 at 12:43 AM.
    ------------------
    Semper Fidelis!

    John D Hosch

    "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine de St. Exupery

  2. #2
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    599

    Default

    Samson_TextProgress_004: A bit more progress on the torso. There is an odd thing happening to the area at the edge of the chest muscle. I will look into what might be causing this. I am not too worried about it though since there is hair to cover it to a degree.

    Samson_TextProgress_004.jpg
    ------------------
    Semper Fidelis!

    John D Hosch

    "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine de St. Exupery

  3. #3
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    599

    Default

    Test_Full001: Well, he is at least fully clothed in an epidermal layer now. I made this pic to test for seams and did find one along the back of each arm that I had missed. If you see any other other than the arm/wrist let me know please. Discovering ZBrush's ZAppLink was so great. It makes dealing with seams such a non-chore. Thanks again Pixologic! I will get to the scar, dirt, vein, SSS, Specular, etc. layers next

    Test_Full001.jpg
    ------------------
    Semper Fidelis!

    John D Hosch

    "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine de St. Exupery

  4. #4
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    599

    Default

    Here is another issue similar to the chest problem. It is not showing up in zbrush or on the uvw map once opened in photoshop and it is not showing up in the max viewport, but is showing up every render in max with mental ray. Does anyone have any ideas what this is caused by?

    I am thinking it must have something to do with mapping, but as of yet I have not figured out. All tests I do result in the same thing, even when I change the texture somewhat it is always like this. I will try a few more test and post if I find a result. I am thinking that solid strips or checkers might point out the issue.

    Test_Partial001.jpg
    ------------------
    Semper Fidelis!

    John D Hosch

    "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine de St. Exupery

  5. #5
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    599

    Default

    The thing that puzzles me is that the displacement map is not causing it obviously since the cuts/wounds through that area continue as intended without variation. It is only in the texture directly which has been fixed using ZAppLink numerous times.
    ------------------
    Semper Fidelis!

    John D Hosch

    "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine de St. Exupery

  6. #6
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    599

    Default

    One thing that I thought it might be was that those poly's were "smoothed", but I checked those settings already and they were not.
    ------------------
    Semper Fidelis!

    John D Hosch

    "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine de St. Exupery

  7. #7
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Delaware
    Age
    34
    Posts
    2,160

    Default

    Its most likely a uv mapping issue. Check your uv map. Max may be altering the uv layouts upon import. Nice model btw, although the shading seems to be a bit dark on it.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    599

    Default

    Thanks for the comments.

    One reason the shading is so dark is that I have the displacement turned about 20% more than it will be on the final. I was just wanting to push it a little too far to see how far I could take it without it "blowing up", It needs to be relaxed some for that.

    Test_Full006: Hair is getting much closer to my goal, but still not sure which setting is making it a bit too blond. I am working on that. Body hair will be my next target once I figure out what is causing the blondness to this hair. I will likely work on relaxing it just a bit more and give it a matted feeling as if mud, etc. is in the hair. Learning how to do the Mental Ray shaders was a huge step forward in my experiments. Thanks JP. Render times are only around 20 min with the hair so I am happy with the compromises I made between render/quality so far.

    Test_Full006.jpg
    ------------------
    Semper Fidelis!

    John D Hosch

    "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine de St. Exupery

  9. #9
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Delaware
    Age
    34
    Posts
    2,160

    Default

    The hair seems fine. A bit of color variation never hurt anything, actually it improves it I think. I would work more on the skin shader though. It doesn't feel like skin.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    599

    Default

    The skin is far from being done so I totally agree with you there.

    Concerning the hair, I agree that color variation always helps, but I am unable to find what is adding the "blondness" so that I can control it at all. Still playing with the mental ray shaders but it seems to be somewhere in the hair and fur mod itself since when I place the same exact shader used on this one on a new material I can get a black/grey hair, but I like this one better. I have tried to replicate this hair with other hair modifiers and can not even when I use the exact same settings ... at least all that I know of.

    I am new to the hair mod so will probably stumble accross it in a few minutes ... or hours lol.
    ------------------
    Semper Fidelis!

    John D Hosch

    "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine de St. Exupery

  11. #11
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    599

    Default

    ZB_SamsonScreenshot_011: I had a critique from someone I really respect in the industry on my anatomy and totally agree. He did not give me specifics, but it definitely was looking inhuman so I reworked everything accept the head. I like the head being slightly smaller than normal now so that it gives him a bigger than life appeal and with his heavy hair load I think it will balance out and look about right. I am trying to make him look like he is about 7 feet tall, but not slightly off-balance like many tall people look. I want him to be fairly proportional since from what we read in historical/bibilical accounts people in some regions lived longer and grew larger back then.



    I also removed some definition from the lowest level of geometry so that he was not so defined which would not be normal having a slight potbelly. I originally had a concept of him as slightly "sumo" wrestler style, but decided against it for a number of reasons, the main one being my wife's request that I go this route than the sumo route. The things we will do for the women we love, lol. I drew a few concepts and she liked this style best and I agree for what I am doing this works.



    The feet and hands have been totally reworked paying closer attention to the reference I started with. The hands have been enlarged a bit and the legs/arms were elongated about 10%. The Gaston brothers are both artists that I have always respected and they always told me that on the legs, arms and hands I should make them a bit larger than true proportion and I think it helps sell my desired impact.

    ZB_SamsonScreenshot_011.jpg
    ------------------
    Semper Fidelis!

    John D Hosch

    "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine de St. Exupery

  12. #12
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,775

    Default

    Nice work! It's good to see you past those issues hosch.
    Long dead links removed...

  13. #13
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    599

    Default

    I also completely reworked my UVW's. They were causing a number of issues and I did not know that each time I re-import the OBJ back into max that I needed to re-apply the UVW unwrap and reload the old UVW information. ZBrush or just the creation of an OBJ in general was not actually "moving" the uvws, but was making each polygon its own entity so that each edge in the model had its own seam. This seemed to be causing a few issues when being displaced. Either way re-loading the original uvw map solved those issues.

    Since I was doing them over anyway, I took that time to use the information I learned from my first time at it and use the map more efficiently. So far I have seen a much better result.

    Unless anyone sees major areas of concern, I think I can start on the home stretch and finish texturing this guy, do the hair and rig him for posing and later animation.

    Thanks everyone for all the interest and help so far.

    Samson_UVW002.jpg
    ------------------
    Semper Fidelis!

    John D Hosch

    "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine de St. Exupery

  14. #14
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    599

    Default

    ZB_SamsonScreenshot_012: Obviously these hands need more work since they definitely do not look real, but I am running out of time for tweaking as my texture deadline is tomorrow at midnight and Sunday night midnight is my deadline for hair and rigging for a pose. The obvious "manicured" look and gloss to the fingernails will easily be fixed later as I do all components on their own layer in Photoshop via ZAppLink in ZBrush. I think it will look good enough for the medium to far shots that I have planned for the animation and pose shots. Also I have a great deal of "dirtying" to do on a final layer of the texture which will cover much of this anyway.

    ZB_SamsonScreenshot_012.jpg
    ------------------
    Semper Fidelis!

    John D Hosch

    "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine de St. Exupery

  15. #15
    Senior Member Follow User Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    599

    Default

    ZB_SamsonScreenshot_013: Same as with hands, the nails are on separate layer and will be toned down later on tomorrow when I am tweaking. Right now I want to block in the parts of the body quickly. The feet could use more anatomical work, but I must move on to other things to meet my deadline.

    ZB_SamsonScreenshot_013.jpg
    ------------------
    Semper Fidelis!

    John D Hosch

    "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
    - Antoine de St. Exupery

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •