1. #151

  2. #152

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    D: Thanks. I made the changes you suggested. The lower lip was coming out too far and the mouth was a little narrow, so hopefully I fixed that

    Killer: Thanks.

    Here is the newest version, I've heard it's worse than the last, but I like it, so I'll leave it up to you to decide. Should I keep working on it/salvage it? Or should I revert back and rework it?

    vigoda5ku1.jpg

  3. #153
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    I like what you have done below the eyes to the top lip. I think you should move onto your next head. I would not try to do look alikes, just do characteristics, features, big nose person, long face, small eyes, big eyes, etc. I've noticed a few of the really good sculpters have done a complete set of noses or ears and mouths, just to perfect their knowledge of the possibilities there are.

    Have you done, Jason Welsh's Skull tut, because I can see the influence of Ryans head muscle tut, but the tools you mentioned don't include any that I use that often. Maybe I should start to broaden my tool use.

    Check these out you will really enjoy them, do the (skull fixed) "Lesson Two in ZBrush Fixed" one if you have'nt already, not because of the skull or head shape you have done but the work flow he shares, its very helpful.

    http://www.veoh.com/channelVideos.html?c=houseofZbrush

    You have to register and install Veoh to watch ahd download the full versions, 2 hrs for this one, or goto these pages and check out the youtube etc links.

    http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=53087

    http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=60018

    I'm all inspired to do a few sets now.

    I like the lip on the previous one as well.

    Abe Vigoda

    abe0lr.jpg
    VIGODA.jpg
    Last edited by ZModerator; 10-14-08 at 11:08 AM.

  4. #154
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    I don't think I've done a skull since I was just messing around with Zbrush 2 about a year ago. Doing another sounds like a good idea, so I'll take a look at those tutorials. I'll also consider doing some feature studies as you suggested. I like doing likenesses, because they give me something to work towards. If I just come up with something from my head, I can make a feature look any way I want and just say "that's how my character looks", but to be able to accurately recreate real features takes a bit more finesse if you ask me.

    I think you're probably right that I should move on. I could add the wrinkles in and I could create the neckline to make the sculpt look nicer, but none of this would really improve my skill, which is the goal.

    Thanks for the comments.

  5. #155

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    Zbrush suddenly stopped working, but now it is working again, so I present, once again, a celebrity face sculpt. This time I'm trying my hand at the late, great, Vincent Price. Critiques very welcome as usual:

    Vincentsculpt1.jpg

  6. #156
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    I dont know if anyone else has said this since i havent read the entire thread, but you should consider strongly purchasing a really good anatomy book to learn how the musculature and skeletal aspects impact the major forms of the face.

    A strong base of knowledge here will take the guess-work out, and save a lot of head scratching as to "why doesn't it look right" etc.

    A really FANTASTIC anatomy book is by Elliot Goldfinger, something like "Anatomy for the artist" (Cant remember title off hand sorry)

    Good luck!!!

    P.S. You have certainly progressed since the first page of this thread.
    Once more unto the breach, dear friends....

  7. #157

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    I have books of anatomy reference, as well as an anatomy model, and anatomy posters. So, I wouldn't say that reference is too lacking, unfortunately, my ability to comprehend that anatomy and apply it is still not as developed as I would like. So, if anyone has any idea as to where exactly I am getting off track, I'd be much obliged. Thanks for coming by.

    Edit: Just a little update, mostly just smoothed the forms:

    Vincentsculpt2.jpg
    Last edited by Twitchmonkey; 10-17-08 at 11:49 PM.

  8. #158
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    hey bro....
    i exactly know wat ur lacking own....
    u dont sketch ,do u????
    bro u need to sketch,sketch everyday.......if u sketch u wil get the prespective(3d) of the objecrts....so if u make a face with all the muscle but stil it doesnt have the perpstve than it wont hav life...and if it doesnt hav life......it is not good right????
    and i guess u have not done face planes in paper...do that first.....
    coz u know the tools...
    if u can do anything in paper than it is obvious that u wil b able to do on zbrush....but its not vice versa......
    just sum help from me.......and u have ammazing technical abitltties....but u have a lillte downfall in aesthetic feel in ur work...
    just a lil help form ur freind...
    zain

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    Yep I totally agree with the previous post .

    It is like you look at building and try to build the same but it is impossible because you do not see the basic details of that building . You dont see the fundament of that building and if you dont see it you wont build it because you dont know is there something likek fundament or not . That means your building will fall because it can not stay on the ground without a fundament.

    So before doing sculpture of real face which has way more details which are not represented on the photo , try to look at some anatomical pictures of the head . Start from basics like human scull . Try to draw it or memorize it or whatever . Then look at muscles of the face try to memorize them too and only after whole this research you will be able to make kickass faces ! I know you would say : Nah its too long . Then there is another method . Take soem anatomy references of the human head and start sculpting your head in zbrush regarding to those references but it can take a lot of time becasue you will be making it first time . I haev done head using this method and I spent about month on just sculpting ! Can you emagine it ?! Some ppl who knwo all the anatomical stuff can do it in few hours and I spent whole month !! And I still do not remember all the features and this means that if you will be making head again it will take another month or maybe a bit less scince I remember something . But the thing is that as soon as you remember whole anatomical stuff you will be able to make heads in hours .

    This was just my advice to you

    Here is awesome web site for how to draw human anatomy from your mind : http://the-structure-of-man.blogspot.com/
    You can watch free samples and then decide is it good or not .

    Sry for poor English grammar

    Kind Regards
    Alex

    P.S. I am in same position as you

  10. #160
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    Thanks guys, but I really don't know what to say to all this.

    I spend a great deal of time here espousing the merits of defining good form and planarity, and yet it is perceived that I do not have a basic grasp of those concepts myself. Now, it is possible that I am not entirely successful in my attempts to create these things, and it is certainly true. However, the idea that I approach modeling with reckless abandon and no concept of form is a bit insulting. Whether you choose to believe me or not, I make a rather meticulous effort to properly define form and fine good reference material, and I consider the major landmarks of facial anatomy the whole time.

    What I would ultimately ask of you is to give me something I can use. I don't need to be told to get more reference material. I've had that since I got started. I need to know where my form deviates from what is right and correct. I attempt to give you this when I critique you, but yet it is not deemed necessary for me. Free advice is free, and I'll take it, but I honestly don't know what to do with the same advice I've been given since I started.

    Every sculpt is a new challenge, but I do not feel as it is being treated as such. I am treated as if I have some sort of mental deficiency which renders me incapable of understanding basic concepts which others have time and time again already expressed. Maybe I am, but if I am, you might as well just go, because things aren't going to get any better.

  11. #161
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    hey twitch i dint mean to hurt u or sumthing.......i was just tring to help u...
    bro...since i have started learnig zbrush u hav always giving me support and wonderful ways of improvments....i wil be the last person to hurt u or sumthing like that!!!!!
    u know a lot of things which i dont and i know things that u don....so when both of us share our ideas and crits...thats when the magic wil work right.......
    u culdnt render ur capabilities well....which i think is emense is because u dont sketch....and i swear on god....
    just try this out...
    take a paper and make face planes a couple of time for my sake..and then try to do make a face and if it doent show better result then wil never comment on ur work again and never bother u......dude u knwo alll the tools and with the help that u can be amaing....
    and i mised ur post wer u mentioned that u do the face of a celeb so that u can get the likennes....and dont want to do ur just random faces cause then it wil only mater ur satisfaction
    bro,i belive when u r satisfied with ur work the world wil be satisfied......
    i m sorry if i have hurt....coz that was not all my intention...


    ZAIN
    .............
    zain a.k.a NEOZERAHAN
    ...........
    my sketch book.... (pls do me a favour of not going through the first page )
    http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/sho...4&page=7&pp=15

  12. #162
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    I'm sorry, I'm just tired. Very, very tired. Every day it seems like the same thing. I work on the same faces and I get the same response. Keep working, getting better, get more reference, like no one even sees the work I'm doing. I do sketch, in fact I spend every third day sketching. My practicing alternates between painting, modeling, and sculpting, each for a day at a time. Maybe I should draw more, but it will come at the expense of my sculpting. No time can be spent not at the expense of some other. Perhaps, I will do that then, perhaps not, certainly though, something needs to change. Once again, thanks for stopping by.

  13. #163
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    Ok even after my big advice you do not listen . The I think I need to show you how these anatomical references work .

    First I go to this wonderful web page where you can find Andrew Loomis books

    http://www.fineart.sk/index.php?cat=1
    Then you take a look at book called : Drawing The Head and Hands

    There you look at the basic human head proportions
    http://www.fineart.sk/show.php?w=39
    http://www.fineart.sk/show.php?w=40

    So here is your head and landmarks for the head . I would not correct the whole head because I am just studying these things atm .

    dggmzoehtk.jpg

    As you can see the head can be divided on three thirds . The first mistake which can be seen very clearly is the chin . It should be placed a bit higher on the last line . The mouth is also placed WRONG ! Divide are from tip of the nose to the chin on three thirds and place the mouth centre on the nearest line to the nose tip .

    Anyway here I tried to correct those mistakes

    zhlgdwxmvu.jpg

    Here you can see corrected head without land marks

    pcfctxxrpn.jpg

    I do not know what do you think but for me the corrected head looks way better than previous one .

    Remember it was only the very basic proportions . The head has way more things like these . For example where the cheek bone is ? IS it exactly there where it is in your model ?

    I hope my short explanation will help you because I would really like to see your works in better quality . I know you can do this because you have done so many things . Just study these proportions and you will rockzzz !!!!!!

  14. #164
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    Hey TwitchMonkey! I've been following this thread and seen some great progress and I know how you feel. I understand you've put so much work and you want to see results, but after all this work u put it will even hurt me to see that you're hurt after all this. So please don't be discouraged, you shud understand also on this site all sorts of great works from all around world are put up all the time so it is very challenging and hard sometimes to get good responses with all the competitiveness.

    So I' like to give some suggestions (take what you like from it toss the rest)

    Like you said, you're tired! And something needs to change. Yes, and that's the approach. Especially when you're tired, the first thing you need to do is take a break, just a small rest from it all. When you come back afresh to look at your old works and start new, you may be surprised. Start with a new perspective, afresh and let go for a bit. Instead of striving to get all this technical stuff right becoz people say you must and all the whatnot, first ignore all that for a while and start with getting inspiration all over again, inspiration of all kinds from all around i.e. different artworks and stuff you know what I mean. It's like energy for you to go on without feeling down while you work becoz feeling down and thinking of all the crits doesnt help much while you're working. You have to work with the right state of mind, and trust me it makes a difference (for me it did) be happy and inspired when you sculpt, go artistic first then technical with all your reference in front of you and technical knowledge etc but dont forget artistically first then technically.

    Also I suggest watching timelapses and videos like gnomon videos etc of the masters at work becoz it's very inspirational and educational for technical stuff. At the same time you can learn how to use brushes most effectively for sculpting heads etc. and more. Maybe you have watched some watch them again or watch more and try again. That's life though.

    Anyhow, that's my 2 cents.

    Oh and by the way, I don't think it's a pre-requisite that you need to sketch so that you can sculpt, it helps for sure but definitely you can do without. In my case I suck at sketching but I think I sculpt alright

    Keep going TwitchMonkey and I wish you success!!

    Don't feel down! Keep it up and a few years from now you'll be looking back at this and laughing. It's just a barrier you have to break, like a milestone, and you'll see a big sudden difference.
    SketchBook
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    ZAnimator Zbrush Thread
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  15. #165

    Smile

    from the posts above i see there are some good hearted ppl here. . i feel your pain... part of what ive had issues with learning zbrush i think was my predisposition to other 3d programs. zbrush really is an artist process seems that its mostly about the gesture and overall feel of things than exact geometric similarity- charicature artist can capture likeness without lining up images. lately i even think image planes are wasteful at very least after a certian point. ref is a neccessity though. one tip ive learned lately i how much this is like drawing. practice reliefs on a plane. dont get caught up in the front and side views. alot can be done on a head in a 3/4 without even moving a camera. but looking around the model is good overall. i see similarity with myself here so trying to share GL. sorry if youve tried these things. just trying to help
    -lee

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